General Suggestions

[0rbz 25]

Some of you may know me as somewhat who enjoys playing independent quite a lot, others may remember me from various staff positions on RISE gaming. I'm writing this thread to make a few suggestions which I feel would make things better for everyone after hearing out what people have been complaining about when chatting to them.

1. Expand the list of war vehicles for BLUFOR. (Expansion of Rule 3.4 §5)

 - Currently, the inventory of vehicles which BLUFOR can get at any time still creates a feeling that they were too overpowered. Whilst the current list is good, it does not include vehicles which the vast majority of other servers considered war vehicles for a good reason, and this is that they create an unfair style of play and are listed below. The main issue with these vehicles is as BLUFOR's job largely consists, both in an RP sense and in a literal sense, in dealing with civilians in a war-torn country and thus taking on a Military Police role, it is an unnecessary amount of force projection to be driving around in a Stryker M2 whilst pulling people over. This also creates an unnecessary amount of kills and drives people away from playing on civ; I've seen countless examples where BLUFOR in such vehicles have opened fire on civilians and killed them needlessly as through the thermal sights, they look just like indeps. (I know we have support rooms, but why not stop it from happening in the first place?). It's also simply unfair; it's unfair to anyone playing civ or playing indep if as BLUFOR, you simply sit in an armoured box that we have to spend $600,000 to attempt to destroy. Anything that is fully armoured and has a weapon system should be considered a war vehicle and only be used during martial law/war.

• CROWS
• Avenger
• All armed stryker variants.

2. Expand the inventory of the Independent faction.

 - The independent faction is currently vastly underpowered and unrealistic; there needs to be several changes in order to make it fun to play. Firsly, the cost of IED's must be lowered so that they can actually be used. This should be the main tool of insurgent forces as it enhances ingenuity and craftiness and currently, $310,000 for an IED is extortionate considering the fact that unless you're in a good timezone, it's extremely difficult to make money. The insurgents also need some kind of anti-material capability, this being the KSVK. This allows them to have some sort of viable ambushing capability and is something the vast majority of other servers had and people loved. However, a MUST are man-portable anti-air systems; being able to purchase the Igla 9K38 as an insurgent is something that needs to be purchased as currently, the faction has no real anti-air capability. Having an Igla Pod or ZU-23 truck is fine, but considering the fact that this appears as an enemy vehicle on radar, this meant that by the time you've gotten an appropriate distance from the safezone and set up, you've already been taken out from 5km away by the missile from a Hind. I cannot stress how important this is for indeps to have. Lastly, indeps should be able to use Mortars; this may be controversial, but mortars do actually require indeps to think if they are to be effective and requires team play and coordination, all that needs to be implemented are restrictions on what can be hit.

3. Remove the ability to bring martial-law vehicles to the border (Removal of rule 3.4 §6)

 - There is an enormous amount of ways in which this can be abused. This also allows people to simply camp the border and engage targets several km away just by turning up the view distance and also means that civilians WILL be attacked too.

4. Massively harder enforcement of policing rules (Especially 3.1 §7)

 - The BLUFOR faction is currently in a poor state. All day I see civilians who were legtimately doing nothing wrong being killed on sight for alleged breaches which are not permitted, such as for approaching a BLUFOR vehicle in their car or for 'running away'. Below are several genuine excuses I've seen civilians be killed for;

• 'He ran from me'
• 'He had a gun in his car'
• 'He is wanted'
• 'I saw him walking with a gun'

 - All these reasons are ridiculous; BLUFOR are meant to carry stun weapons and MUST do their best to apprehend civilians at all times. They can only shoot if their life is genuinely at risk, especially since civilians can carry weapons. There must be a legitimate attempt at an arrest make, which I never see happening. Just because someone is wanted does not mean they can be killed. These are what probably piss me off the most, as it legitimately drives people away from the server and I can see a distinct drop in the number of civ players (which must always be the biggest faction) whenever this starts happening.

5. Add a rule stating that rockets/missiles may only be used on armed/armoured vehicles.

 - This stops civilians who have just robbed a bank being slapped with a missile from 5k away and stops the same happening for indeps on motorbikes. It adds an element of skill for helicopter pilots to have to use the aircraft's guns and also adds a more RP 'Laws of War' element.

 

 

I might post more if I think of anything more, but for the mean time, please drop your opinions below.

Edited April 12, 2018 by 0rbz

[JumpyWizard 91]

+1 To the majority of the things you have stated, there is one thing that I don't agree with though.

22 minutes ago, 0rbz said:

3. Remove the ability to bring martial-law vehicles to the border (Removal of rule 3.4 §6)

 - There is an enormous amount of ways in which this can be abused. This also allows people to simply camp the border and engage targets several km away just by turning up the view distance and also means that civilians WILL be attacked too.

 

The martial law/war vehicles that are taken to the border, is only allowed to be used at targets at the border, meaning that you can not under any circumstances take an Abrams to the border, just to shoot indies in Rasman. You may only fire at people who aren't within the safezone if they engage you first, that being indies aswell.

[0rbz 25]

Just now, JumpyWizard said:

+1 To the majority of the things you have stated, there is one thing that I don't agree with though.

The martial law/war vehicles that are taken to the border, is only allowed to be used at targets at the border, meaning that you can not under any circumstances take an Abrams to the border, just to shoot indies in Rasman. You may only fire at people who aren't within the safezone if they engage you first, that being indies aswell.

It happens regardless though. They are used to engage targets far away, and 'at the border' has many definitions. It makes this rule either OP or useless.

[JumpyWizard 91]

7 minutes ago, 0rbz said:

It happens regardless though. They are used to engage targets far away, and 'at the border' has many definitions. It makes this rule either OP or useless.

It isn't useless at all, it's a good way of defending your border. But if you see someone doing that, you should indeed let us know and we will definitely do something about it.

[0rbz 25]

7 minutes ago, JumpyWizard said:

It isn't useless at all, it's a good way of defending your border. But if you see someone doing that, you should indeed let us know and we will definitely do something about it.

But again, why not stop it from happening in the first place? You can post static defenses, armed heli patrols and others at the border.

[Giovanni 196]

1 hour ago, 0rbz said:

It happens regardless though. They are used to engage targets far away, and 'at the border' has many definitions. It makes this rule either OP or useless.

"At the border" does not have many definitions. The rules specifically state this:

War ground vehicles may be used during peacetime within 100 meters of a border checkpoint. They may only engage targets for the purpose of border protection or any targets that engage them first.

If it happens anyway, then it's on you or other players to report it, just like any other rule violation. There's nothing more we can do after it's prohibited by the rules except enforce it on a case by case basis. It's not our fault that people don't report things, instead they make broad statements about how "everyone does X."

[staan 24]

remove ai

[0rbz 25]

1 hour ago, Giovanni said:

"At the border" does not have many definitions. The rules specifically state this:

War ground vehicles may be used during peacetime within 100 meters of a border checkpoint. They may only engage targets for the purpose of border protection or any targets that engage them first.

If it happens anyway, then it's on you or other players to report it, just like any other rule violation. There's nothing more we can do after it's prohibited by the rules except enforce it on a case by case basis. It's not our fault that people don't report things, instead they make broad statements about how "everyone does X."

I should have mentioned that it's also excessive. BLUFOR have access to armed helicopters, armed vehicles and great kit. It's about not only being ingenious and proactive but also giving civs smuggling stuff and indeps a fair chance for the sake of RP. They're meant to patrol and take active measures instead of sitting looking through a thermal optic.

[Kane 99]

-1 The indeps are already powerfull enough as it is, And most prices of everything should be going up soon, The blufor already have a Huge list of vehicles they are not allowed to use because qoute on qoute To OP, The rocket rule i dont think should apply due to the inaccurate fireing of machineguns from helicopters however this various from pilot to pilot. 

Indeps shouldnt get more than they already have, Your a extremist faction that relies on captureing equipment from the russians or americans which is why you have a lack of equipment, Your allowed to KOS all factons with few exemptions.

Now blufor having there war vics not at the border is completely outrageous, I think they should be allowed because of how opfor operates, Indeps are just targeted because they want to take the easiest route to rasmen, get on a hill and pick cops off because they have no counter to spotting indeps.

[Smidge Griffkin 154]

5 hours ago, 0rbz said:

 They're meant to patrol and take active measures instead of sitting looking through a thermal optic.

Perhaps you are unaware, but the factions are going to be whitelisted and changes will be made in the way they operate. Its kind of limbo atm while we all wait for it to be implemented. Just you wait until Bacon has his way with Blufor. Criminal civs and indeps/terrorists are going to have a much harder time when Blufor is militarized a bit more. More air patrols, more drones, more armed vics patrolling the borders and checkpoints..... ya know, "active measures" as you put it. Also..... Blufor cops flak regardless of what measures they take. Such is life....

So from me its a:
-1 

Leave the current vehicle rules as they are.... we just need people to stop abusing them or trying to find ways around them.

[Hordan 7]

+ 1, however, I do not agree with 3 or 5

3- I don't see martial law vehicles at the border too much and hey it is a good advantage when the indies have the element of surprise and have nothing but targets it's much easier for them. It also makes the indies work together more to take out a bigger issue, I played indie with a friend and we had to team up with some randoms to take out a shilka guarding CPA. It was fun and if armed vehicles weren't there it'd get dull.

5- I only partially agree with, I find it annoying when cops jus obliterate buildings and I was a "hostage" at the bank the other day and before any negotiations or anything we get strafed with hydras from an attack heli almost killing me. so I am 50/50 on this one.

[Hordan 7]

9 hours ago, 0rbz said:

These are what probably piss me off the most, as it legitimately drives people away from the server and I can see a distinct drop in the number of civ players (which must always be the biggest faction) whenever this starts happening.

also 100% true, although luckily the server is picking back up now 

[Pickles 5]

10 hours ago, 0rbz said:

5. Add a rule stating that rockets/missiles may only be used on armed/armoured vehicles.

 - This stops civilians who have just robbed a bank being slapped with a missile from 5k away and stops the same happening for indeps on motorbikes. It adds an element of skill for helicopter pilots to have to use the aircraft's guns and also adds a more RP 'Laws of War' element.

+1 I agree with the no rocket rule, it'll make blufor/opfor either have to stun more people or actually be good at flying. It's really annoying driving a little dirt bike as indie and being chased by an opfor in a goddamn mi-24 strafing you with rockets when most of the time the only weapon you have is an AK. There's really no need to send 20 hydras at one person driving a dirt bike or a hatchback. Instead of just armed vehicles tho, I think it should be if they have weapons to take down a heli/plane or hell even a humvee, such as an RPG or any missile launcher a civ or indie can get.

[Supersahen 61]

+1 i agree with 4 and 5, the rest i'm impartial about and don't really care either way.

[Elijah 91]

I think that indeps do need better gear but only non-supporter indeps. Supporter gear is plenty Powerfull while the weapons non supporters have acces to can't compete with the default weapons of the other factions.

i also agree that rockets should ONLY be used on vehicles. At least by blufor. For NATO to use rockets on civilian criminals in a country they are policing would bring up international debates. A peacekeeping group would never be allowed to use explosives on civilians unless absolutely necessary. 

[Jacob 17]

I feel as this topic has already been discussed by other players and everything has been rejected multiple times, why bring it up again. BLUFOR,OPFOR, PMC are being whitelisted, when whitelisting comes out all BLUFOR staff including myself are planning to make it a lil more serious in many ways, but still keep it to a jump in and play type situation so that people that play can still have fun. Indeps in irl dont have a shit ton of things, they work for everything and it takes time so dont say you dont have enough. Now as a terrorist in irl its the same situation. This topic shouldn't be brought up again due to the fact that it has been brought up already.

[Nade'N'Praise 4]

New rule #69- May not use rockets on soft targets.

 

[xpoqx 5]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:14 AM, 0rbz said:

Some of you may know me as somewhat who enjoys playing independent quite a lot, others may remember me from various staff positions on RISE gaming. I'm writing this thread to make a few suggestions which I feel would make things better for everyone after hearing out what people have been complaining about when chatting to them.

1. Expand the list of war vehicles for BLUFOR. (Expansion of Rule 3.4 §5)

 - Currently, the inventory of vehicles which BLUFOR can get at any time still creates a feeling that they were too overpowered. Whilst the current list is good, it does not include vehicles which the vast majority of other servers considered war vehicles for a good reason, and this is that they create an unfair style of play and are listed below. The main issue with these vehicles is as BLUFOR's job largely consists, both in an RP sense and in a literal sense, in dealing with civilians in a war-torn country and thus taking on a Military Police role, it is an unnecessary amount of force projection to be driving around in a Stryker M2 whilst pulling people over. This also creates an unnecessary amount of kills and drives people away from playing on civ; I've seen countless examples where BLUFOR in such vehicles have opened fire on civilians and killed them needlessly as through the thermal sights, they look just like indeps. (I know we have support rooms, but why not stop it from happening in the first place?). It's also simply unfair; it's unfair to anyone playing civ or playing indep if as BLUFOR, you simply sit in an armoured box that we have to spend $600,000 to attempt to destroy. Anything that is fully armoured and has a weapon system should be considered a war vehicle and only be used during martial law/war.

• CROWS
• Avenger
• All armed stryker variants.

2. Expand the inventory of the Independent faction.

 - The independent faction is currently vastly underpowered and unrealistic; there needs to be several changes in order to make it fun to play. Firsly, the cost of IED's must be lowered so that they can actually be used. This should be the main tool of insurgent forces as it enhances ingenuity and craftiness and currently, $310,000 for an IED is extortionate considering the fact that unless you're in a good timezone, it's extremely difficult to make money. The insurgents also need some kind of anti-material capability, this being the KSVK. This allows them to have some sort of viable ambushing capability and is something the vast majority of other servers had and people loved. However, a MUST are man-portable anti-air systems; being able to purchase the Igla 9K38 as an insurgent is something that needs to be purchased as currently, the faction has no real anti-air capability. Having an Igla Pod or ZU-23 truck is fine, but considering the fact that this appears as an enemy vehicle on radar, this meant that by the time you've gotten an appropriate distance from the safezone and set up, you've already been taken out from 5km away by the missile from a Hind. I cannot stress how important this is for indeps to have. Lastly, indeps should be able to use Mortars; this may be controversial, but mortars do actually require indeps to think if they are to be effective and requires team play and coordination, all that needs to be implemented are restrictions on what can be hit.

3. Remove the ability to bring martial-law vehicles to the border (Removal of rule 3.4 §6)

 - There is an enormous amount of ways in which this can be abused. This also allows people to simply camp the border and engage targets several km away just by turning up the view distance and also means that civilians WILL be attacked too.

4. Massively harder enforcement of policing rules (Especially 3.1 §7)

 - The BLUFOR faction is currently in a poor state. All day I see civilians who were legtimately doing nothing wrong being killed on sight for alleged breaches which are not permitted, such as for approaching a BLUFOR vehicle in their car or for 'running away'. Below are several genuine excuses I've seen civilians be killed for;

• 'He ran from me'
• 'He had a gun in his car'
• 'He is wanted'
• 'I saw him walking with a gun'

 - All these reasons are ridiculous; BLUFOR are meant to carry stun weapons and MUST do their best to apprehend civilians at all times. They can only shoot if their life is genuinely at risk, especially since civilians can carry weapons. There must be a legitimate attempt at an arrest make, which I never see happening. Just because someone is wanted does not mean they can be killed. These are what probably piss me off the most, as it legitimately drives people away from the server and I can see a distinct drop in the number of civ players (which must always be the biggest faction) whenever this starts happening.

5. Add a rule stating that rockets/missiles may only be used on armed/armoured vehicles.

 - This stops civilians who have just robbed a bank being slapped with a missile from 5k away and stops the same happening for indeps on motorbikes. It adds an element of skill for helicopter pilots to have to use the aircraft's guns and also adds a more RP 'Laws of War' element.

 

 

I might post more if I think of anything more, but for the mean time, please drop your opinions below.

+1

[Jake Thompson 63]

Ok listen, putting the avenger, crows and all armed variant of the strykers as a martial law veichle would have blufor in the grave. They could not handle a KA-137 pk. Indeps bring a rpg and stop complaining. You just don't like the fact blufor can pull out a veichle that overpowers you. That's the point, Blufor is a Military fighting the Civil war between terrorist and law, with the occasional opfor war in between. They are supposed to be more powerful than the terrorists. THERE WHOLE point of being the notthern police/military is to make it safe. I can take a Stryker with a Fal.

 

Now only using rockets on an armed vehicles is stupid. Its Takistan its a war zone.

 

The igla is a supporter weapon and mortars were allowed now they are banned.

[Drew 27]

7 minutes ago, Jake Thompson said:

Ok listen, putting the avenger, crows and all armed variant of the strykers would have blufor in the grave. They could not handle a KA-137 pk. Indeps bring a rpg and stop complaining. You just don't like the fact blufor can pull out a veichle that overpowers you. That's the point, Blufor is a Military fighting the Civil war between terrorist and law, with the occasional opfor war in between. 

 

Now only using rockets on an armed vehicles is stupid. Its Takistan its a war zone.

 

The igla is a supporter weapon and mortars were allowed now they are banned.

Not only that but, specifically, the avenger is the only type of AA they really have access to, they don’t have access to stingers unless a donator I think.

[Jake Thompson 63]

That's actually true, Drew. Other than one other war tank

[Supersahen 61]

42 minutes ago, Jake Thompson said:

Ok listen, putting the avenger, crows and all armed variant of the strykers as a martial law veichle would have blufor in the grave

How so?

 

It takes a minute for the police chief to go back to base and declare martial law and then they can pull out their fancy avengers and shoot down the ka-137 PK. And then put the fun toys back once its dead and go back to policing.

 

The avenger is a very good vehicle against infantry which most people don't seem to realise, and Strykers are just dumb.

We don't need like more than 1 stryker at peace time and it doesn't even really need to be armed, armoured transport is more than enough to take out some goat farmers with fals.

[Drew 27]

40 minutes ago, Supersahen said:

We don't need like more than 1 stryker at peace time and it doesn't even really need to be armed, armoured transport is more than enough to take out some goat farmers with fals.

Yet the goat farmers have more brains than Blufor, you would want it armed, if not, your just in a mobile coffin at that point.

[Supersahen 61]

4 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yet the goat farmers have more brains than Blufor, you would want it armed, if not, your just in a mobile coffin at that point.

The only thing the Stryker won't block is an explosive, just need to watch out for RPG's which barely anyone ever has.

Armed Strykers are really not needed for general patrolling.

[Drew 27]

4 minutes ago, Supersahen said:

The only thing the Stryker won't block is an explosive, just need to watch out for RPG's which barely anyone ever has.

Armed Strykers are really not needed for general patrolling.

Dshkm, can turn it to Swiss cheese killing driver and all passengers, spg-9 roast it with a couple rounds, AGS-30 grenade spam will kill the tires and then leave it/them out in the open for target practice.