Remove AI

[Supersahen 61]

This is a pretty simple suggestion so i don't think there is that much to explain really.

I think AI should be removed as they are just silly, they cause way too many border skirmishes, team killing, rdm, killing random civs, firing and destroying inside safezones, etc.

Constantly i'll walk up to the border and opfor will just obliterate me, and they'll say "sorry it was my AI" and then continue to do it again.

If you can't reliably control your AI and tell them to not shoot at everything they shouldn't be there.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Supersahen

[Drew 27]

1 hour ago, Supersahen said:

This is a pretty simple suggestion so i don't think there is that much to explain really.

I think AI should be removed as they are just silly, they cause way too many border skirmishes, team killing, rdm, killing random civs, firing and destroying inside safezones, etc.

Constantly i'll walk up to the border and opfor will just obliterate me, and they'll say "sorry it was my AI" and then continue to do it again.

If you can't reliably control your AI and tell them to not shoot at everything they shouldn't be there.

Sounds fair enough. Obviously, as you know, how often I use them, I am opposed, but they do provide an advantage when fighting & in recon in helping spot & engage targets. From my experience with the Ai & RDM of random civs sounds like a bs excuse, in the sense that who ever committed RDM with the AI gave it the command. I have noticed even if they are armed and shoot at you, ai don’t engage. Team killing wise for as it goes, they will only fire upon other team members who have TKed. Accidental or not. Obviously they shouldn’t be within conflicting safezones where they’re opposing factions. For border cases, a simple rule or some common sense should be that: IF you have Ai within your vehicle, you are not permitted to with 500m - 1km of the border. But by accounts of border skirmish, the trigger happy of Opfor & Blufor are to blame as much as Ai. Guessing that it took this long for a complaint to appear, you had an incident earlier today?

[Supersahen 61]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Sounds fair enough. Obviously, as you know, how often I use them, I am opposed, but they do provide an advantage when fighting & in recon in helping spot & engage targets. From my experience with the Ai & RDM of random civs sounds like a bs excuse, in the sense that who ever committed RDM with the AI gave it the command. I have noticed even if they are armed and shoot at you, ai don’t engage. Team killing wise for as it goes, they will only fire upon other team members who have TKed. Accidental or not. Obviously they shouldn’t be within conflicting safezones where they’re opposing factions. For border cases, a simple rule or some common sense should be that: IF you have Ai within your vehicle, you are not permitted to with 500m - 1km of the border. But by accounts of border skirmish, the trigger happy of Opfor & Blufor are to blame as much as Ai. Guessing that it took this long for a complaint to appear, you had an incident earlier today?

Negative, I've always wanted to put forward the suggestion and hear other peoples opinions just never been bothered.

Its a lot more of a problem for blufor considering our main vehicle the SUV is a civilian vehicle, whenever you crash or shoot one you can become a Teamkiller. Our main target is also Civilians which obviously drive civ cars around and killing a civilian is enough to make you a teamkiller.

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Supersahen

[TristanAus 24]

+1 Remove AI

[Spork 24]

-1 im against i use ai alot and not just for shooting. If people their AI shoots someone they should just comp. AI do to tend to ignore the hold fire so i dont use them at border and in a hind i use manual fire so i decide when to shoot not the AI. People who cant control them shouldnt use them.

AI is also usefull for making money so no im against removing them 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Spork

[Drew 27]

1 hour ago, Supersahen said:

Negative, I've always wanted to put forward the suggestion and hear other peoples opinions just never been bothered.

Its a lot more of a problem for blufor considering our main vehicle the SUV is a civilian vehicle, whenever you crash or shoot one you can become a Teamkiller. Our main target is also Civilians which obviously drive civ cars around and killing a civilian is enough to make you a teamkiller.

 

Ok, so from what I can gather is your main issue is with blufor, as you guys have to arrest civs ect, those types of targets are counted as civ, in turn, it’s counted as the same team and you are declared a TKer. Seems fair enough. If we are going with opinions, I may as well put mine out there. I think the AI should stay in a sense as it should be used for wartime only, because some of the Opfor vehicles we use require a gunner regardless. Manual fire and the targeting system are a bit bugged thanks to the TLX interfering with the TAB lock on system, using the number command only works if you have a squad member, ie another player. But due to small amount of players sometimes with Opfor and some players not having much common sense or a happy trigger finger, its easier to have an AI gunner in place of them, drastically reducing TKing, RDMing or failing to ID targets correctly.

[Drew 27]

8 minutes ago, Spork said:

-1 im against i use ai alot and not just for shooting. If people their AI shoots someone they should just comp. AI do to tend to ignore the hold fire so i dont use them at border and in a hind i use manual fire so i decide when to shoot not the AI. People who cant control them shouldnt use them.

AI is also usefull for making money so not sorry im against removing them 

Usually when I am at border with a Hind,  I have the AI switch to the AGM’s, that way they don’t freely engage blufor, plus when at borderor in general, the Yak-B does nothing, so all I use them for is tracking hostile unless it’s a vehicle.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Drew

[Searnoix 2]

-1, AI is great, if somebody cant control them properly and the bots rdm someone the owner  should comp + its very common that A2 ai sucks 

[staan 24]

+1 remove, only turds need the server to shoot for them

[Unknown 124]

+1 Remove AI

[Jake Thompson 63]

I personally don't see the point of removing AI. Most people don't know how to use AI, I use AI for more than killing indeps. They help me transport other vehicles for me etc. My AI rarely messes up, because I know how to use them. If you don't know how to control an AI don't use them. No need to remove AI they are useful for other things not just killing indeps. 

[Unknown 124]

I personally want people to rely on themselves more than an AI. As of right now, there seem to be more problems than good. We shall see the future.

[Jake Thompson 63]

So, what you are saying is due to a few people who cannot control AI everyone has to loose the privilege, I use them to spot people as the Tab key is annoying, or they help me mine, which helps me maximise  my profits. I don't have unlimited time.

 

So instead of removing it, why not find a solution to the current problem, instead of removing it from everyone.

 

why not make it its own license or make it so supporters can only get them? I personally don't see the point of taking away AI They don't cause many issues(From what I have seen). Most people don't even know that AI exist.

[Spork 24]

1 hour ago, Unknown said:

I personally want people to rely on themselves more than an AI. As of right now, there seem to be more problems than good. We shall see the future.

In opfor we use ai for transporting aswell. I dont use AI to shoot for me, cause like stated above they also fire on people who you dont want them shooting on.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Spork
Edit requested by unknown

[Unknown 124]

18 minutes ago, Spork said:

In opfor we use ai for transporting aswell. barely anyone uses ai to shoot for them.

Correct yourself, you barely use them for shooting others. I understand you use them for transports but i personally don’t see it necessary for the improvement of the server. To each their own tho.

[Elijah 91]

Honestly I love using AI but they are overpowered. The one thing I would suggest is that they are made wartime only. They can make wars more fun since you wont need 2 people to every vehicle. With the AI in wars we can have more vehicle which means larger conflicts.

[Giovanni 196]

I agree with the removal of AI. Aside from the fact they often don't listen to commands to hold fire and cause mayhem at borders, they are cheaty in the fact that they can magically identify and open fire on enemy targets in situations where a human player would not see them.

Example 1: An insurgent is driving around in a civilian vehicle. A human player would see this vehicle and think it's a civilian, and probably not think anymore about it. An AI on the other hand will recognize it as an enemy and immediately open fire.

Example 2: An insurgent is hiding in a bush behind a rock on a mountain near Checkpoint Alpha. Opfor is struggling to find this insurgent as they endlessly pick off soldiers at the border. Opfor decides to bring an Mi-24 with an AI gunner. The AI immediately spots the concealed insurgent and kills it.

Example 3: Someone places AI into an armed vehicle in a location where they are able to annihilate any enemy that even comes near. This is often used on roads leading out of the Independent base to instantly murder any unsuspecting insurgents leaving before they are even able to identify the AI vehicle.

With these type of situations in mind, I feel that AI provides a huge reconnaissance advantage to the players using them, as they will insta-identify enemies and engage them. Therefore I agree with the proposal that they get removed.

3 hours ago, Jake Thompson said:

So, what you are saying is due to a few people who cannot control AI everyone has to loose the privilege, I use them to spot people as the Tab key is annoying

This is exactly the type of behaviour we're trying to prevent though. The AI are just used as spotters because people are too lazy to go look for enemies themselves. It's irrelevant whether people can control their AI or not.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Giovanni

[Drew 27]

Gio, in regards to spotting foot soldiers, the only real way for them to be spotted is by shooting at said vehicle Ai are in, ie a tank or hind, the way I have found to spot is you just have to spam right mous button over a certain area, once you get that square identification box, then Ai get their location and you track them from  their. You are correct on it being a huge recon advantage.

im sorry to say but I think, your example #1 is semi false, as most players name check the vehicles they see, be it in a helicopter, tank, car ect. No one really drives by and dismiss them.

#2 isn’t quite right either, Ai don’t spot immediately unless shot at, most of the time, players have to spam target, ie I spam spot when we have snipers within the hills of CPA, I just use Ai to track them, then I release a barrage of rockets.

but #3 is corrrect, Ai placed in that manner can be used to entrap them within their spawn, but far as I have known, no one really places vehicles near indies spawn, far as it goes, routine patrols and tracking indies is as far as it goes.

i should also note, with Opfor vehicles like the Su-27/34, you NEED to have a gunner, or things like the AA/AGMS won’t work, you can’t manual fire the missiles and use targeting systems, the TAB keys interferes with the locking system, I don’t know if their is a secondary targeting system but the only way to counter that is using ai. If removal of the Ai happens, you would need to have a either some vehicles removed, or have some of the other faction vehicles in place of them, or have a rule in place to ensure their is enough people on for war instead of just having higher up agree to war ect.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Drew

[Smidge Griffkin 154]

I'm on both sides of the fence for this one.. although when you are the only indep on sometimes it's handy having a few retarded jihadists drawing fire away from you. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Smidge Griffkin

[staan 24]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Gio, in regards to spotting foot soldiers, the only real way for them to be spotted is by shooting at said vehicle Ai are in, ie a tank or hind, the way I have found to spot is you just have to spam right mous button over a certain area, once you get that square identification box, then Ai get their location and you track them from  their. You are correct on it being a huge recon advantage.

im sorry to say but I think, your example #1 is semi false, as most players name check the vehicles they see, be it in a helicopter, tank, car ect. No one really drives by and dismiss them.

#2 isn’t quite right either, Ai don’t spot immediately unless shot at, most of the time, players have to spam target, ie I spam spot when we have snipers within the hills of CPA, I just use Ai to track them, then I release a barrage of rockets.

but #3 is corrrect, Ai placed in that manner can be used to entrap them within their spawn, but far as I have known, no one really places vehicles near indies spawn, far as it goes, routine patrols and tracking indies is as far as it goes.

i should also note, with Opfor vehicles like the Su-27/34, you NEED to have a gunner, or things like the AA/AGMS won’t work, you can’t manual fire the missiles and use targeting systems, the TAB keys interferes with the locking system, I don’t know if their is a secondary targeting system but the only way to counter that is using ai. If removal of the Ai happens, you would need to have a either some vehicles removed, or have some of the other faction vehicles in place of them, or have a rule in place to ensure their is enough people on for war instead of just having higher up agree to war ect.

#1 wrong ai will auto say unknown vehicle if its not or enemy vehicle automatically without any commands

#2 ive put a ai in a igla pod and it auto spots even without getting shot at without any of my intervention. out of about 50 times as an indi getting killed by opfor in a heli 99% of the time was by a single rocket (ai) the other times where they were manually rocket spamming i was able to escape without getting hit

use a human gunner / copilot

[Drew 27]

2 hours ago, staan said:

#1 wrong ai will auto say unknown vehicle if its not or enemy vehicle automatically without any commands

#2 ive put a ai in a igla pod and it auto spots even without getting shot at without any of my intervention. out of about 50 times as an indi getting killed by opfor in a heli 99% of the time was by a single rocket (ai) the other times where they were manually rocket spamming i was able to escape without getting hit

use a human gunner / copilot

#1 I have found if you only manually target it like I use the hind to find targets near indie and in blufor territory, it will say “unknown hostile”

#2 Igla pods and enplacments are similar to vehicles, when it comes to spotting, the ai will auto spot and engage because he is the only one that can be in the Igla pod. If an ai is hitting you with one rocket from a hind, it’s usually the pilot that as a contact signature on you. So therefor it is an actual player engaging you, he has just had the ai fire the rocket.

relying on other players is more risky and ends in bigger shit shows because sometimes that person has no idea what he is doing or doesn’t give a fuck and will do what he wants ie, engage blufor when told not to, spawn kill indies before they even get out of safe zone, with ai, you can tell them to hold fire, track targets for a good 3-5km, best of all, they know what they are doing and don’t argue.

[Hordan 7]

+1

 

AI cant rp

[Supersahen 61]

6 hours ago, Drew said:

Gio, in regards to spotting foot soldiers, the only real way for them to be spotted is by shooting at said vehicle Ai are in, ie a tank or hind, the way I have found to spot is you just have to spam right mous button over a certain area, once you get that square identification box, then Ai get their location and you track them from  their. You are correct on it being a huge recon advantage.

The AI will randomly spot an enemy after a while, they have a percentage chance based on what equipment they have, which way they are facing etc.

 

6 hours ago, Drew said:

the way I have found to spot is you just have to spam right mous button over a certain area, once you get that square identification box

This also doesn't rely on AI as you can do it without them. You are simply spotting them yourself and commanding the AI to aim at your target.

That is how you manually lock on with equipment and works with manual fire and no gunner.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Supersahen
Typo

[HonestAbbott 0]

5 hours ago, staan said:

use a human gunner / copilot

This.

 

+1 for removing the ai.

[Jake Thompson 63]

I'm going to put this out here again, why not just try to fix the issue? 

Make it so you require a license? So you have to know and prove you know how to use AI? Or make it supporters only? There are two easy fixes to stop noobs with AI.

 

Its easy to control AI Switch them to a rocket. So they have to be told told to fire, its not that hard to prevent your AI from shooting.