Remove AI

[DOMOCOP14 23]

just gonna say when  indies use a Ai gunner and rain havoc over rasman in a vodnik or tank/apc no one complains as soon as opfor use one indies have a hissy fit

[Supersahen 61]

1 minute ago, Jake Thompson said:

I'm going to put this out here again, why not just try to fix the issue? 

Make it so you require a license? So you have to know and prove you know how to use AI? Or make it supporters only? There are two easy fixes to stop noobs with AI.

 

Its easy to control AI Switch them to a rocket. So they have to be told told to fire, its not that hard to prevent your AI from shooting.

23 hours ago, Drew said:

Usually when I am at border with a Hind,  I have the AI switch to the AGM’s, that way they don’t freely engage blufor

This only works if you are in a vehicle that has missiles, otherwise it's still going to fire at enemies.

Otherwise they will still shoot any enemy they see, even if you tell them to hold fire or act stealthily.

 

Just because you can stop them from firing in a hind doesn't mean that we should keep them. Its simply not possible to actually stop them from shooting unless you physically make them incapable of shooting, such as switching to a weapon they can't fire.

[Giovanni 196]

5 minutes ago, Jake Thompson said:

I'm going to put this out here again, why not just try to fix the issue? 

Make it so you require a license? So you have to know and prove you know how to use AI? Or make it supporters only? There are two easy fixes to stop noobs with AI.

 

Its easy to control AI Switch them to a rocket. So they have to be told told to fire, its not that hard to prevent your AI from shooting.

Requiring licenses for AI isn't going to fix anything. It's nothing to do with "noobs with AI", it's the plain fact that AI gives an unfair advantage over other players who are using tactics that are designed work against humans, not insta-spot, insta-kill AI.

Making this restricted to supporters only would only make it more unfair for others.

You seem to believe that the only problem with AI is that they don't hold fire and lead to chaotic incidents, so obviously you didn't read my previous reply to you.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Giovanni

[Supersahen 61]

Just now, DOMOCOP14 said:

just gonna say when  indies use a Ai gunner and rain havoc over rasman in a vodnik or tank/apc no one complains as soon as opfor use one indies have a hissy fit

The difference is that Indies are hostile to everyone but civs which are the only people AI don't shoot, Opfor and Blufor are supposed to use discretion when they fire.

[DOMOCOP14 23]

as opfor we do us discretion  we all ways name check before shooting and if it involves. A civ we give fair warning

also how does it give a unfair advantage when everybody can get them.

 

 

[Jake Thompson 63]

I did read it. But my point is, if you know you can't make the AI hold fire then don't use it in that vehicle. 

 

Gio, I have never once had an AI auto spot for me, I follow the radar tracker and spot him, at what point I tell my AI to track him. I don't see how that is over powered, we don't use AI to insta spot. Either way they only do the spotting for me and I manual fire. Its just without AI Your jobs gets twice as hard flying and trying to keep track of a suspect is not easy, and there is not enough people to go 2 per vehicle. 

 

And Super not always, if you have a 30mm cannon or a 100mm cannon just load He. From what I have seen AI don't fire with He

[Supersahen 61]

Expanding on Gio's point about the AI being an unfair advantage, the AI can see through walls and bushes. It basically makes hiding irrelevant. They may not see you instantly if you are standing behind a wall or behind a bush but if you stay there for long enough they will see you.

 

5 minutes ago, Jake Thompson said:

Its just without AI Your jobs gets twice as hard flying and trying to keep track of a suspect is not easy,

Practice Practice Practice, I do it every time i get on. Fly, keep track of targets, watch the chat log, keep track of my teammates, as well as watching my surroundings for more threats. 

7 minutes ago, Jake Thompson said:

But my point is, if you know you can't make the AI hold fire then don't use it in that vehicle

Well that pretty much rules out most of the BLUFOR vehicle's, I don't see an easy way this can be balanced. It's extremely preferential towards OPFOR as you can clearly see by all the people in here who play OPFOR regularly and are defending it.

24 minutes ago, DOMOCOP14 said:

also how does it give a unfair advantage when everybody can get them.

Civs Can't :3

24 minutes ago, DOMOCOP14 said:

as opfor we do us discretion  we all ways name check before shooting and if it involves. A civ we give fair warning

It's not the OPFOR players themselves that need to use discretion (even though they do, its besides the point), its the AI which is what this whole thread is about. The AI are physically incapable of giving discretion.

[DOMOCOP14 23]

1 civs can from terror don't know of other places if there is any

 2  the discretion  that Ai have is the player controlling  them cause the have cease fire and fire commands which is up to the player to use effectively. 

[Supersahen 61]

1 minute ago, DOMOCOP14 said:

 2  the discretion  that Ai have is the player controlling  them cause the have cease fire and fire commands which is up to the player to use effectively. 

Cease fire doesn't work. If you tell an AI to hold fire, it does not. If you tell them No target while they are shooting, they will stop for a second and then continue firing. If you tell them to cease fire they stop for a second and then continue firing.

 

The only reliable way to get them to stop firing is to turn the weapon away from the target or to switch to a weapon they can't shoot.

[staan 24]

ai even spots through hills at ground level, i had slaves at workplace 1 by bank and they would spot people at rubies through a hill

[Kennyteao 0]

+1 remove AI

 

How is it even fun to sit in a helicopter while a computer aimbots people from 3k away for you....

[Wolfslayer 53]

-1

So... Wolfslayer is making a faction, Killing incompetent baffoons with a ai gunner and teaches people how to do this... FUCKlNG REMOVE lT!!!

 

I'm sorry but the server is to broken to function without ai gunners... i have tried plenty of times to use a attack helicopter without a ai gunner. it doesn't work. The player base on this server so to low at points to get a decent player gunner. Most of them are to retarded.... The thing with ai gunners is that opfor needs them during a war due to our only good jet requiring a ai gunner. (Su 27/34) and the su 25 is just worthless... Every fighting faction can buy ai so they are not just overpowerd to one faction. is just that alot of people do not know how to use them effectively. I have had a indie buy a igla pod and put a ai gunner in it to shoot me down. Do you hear me bitching about it? NO!

 

People need to stop bitching about things that are killing them. Back when i flew hinds it was people complaining about me using a hind. After that i started using a brdm 2 with a AI gunner. This is when the whole remove ai protest started. People stop bitching and just learn to use the mechanics in the game. I have done it and so can you.

 

Can people just spend about 10 to 15 minutes in the arma 2 singleplayer boot camp

Use it

 

That is my 2 cents on the issue. Remove ai will only result in opfor becomming unplayable.

[Unknown 124]

I don't see how removing it will make any faction unplayable. Back in the ole TLX days they were rarely used on Opfor and nothing has changed since then. An official decision will come later today.

[Drew 27]

6 hours ago, Unknown said:

I don't see how removing it will make any faction unplayable. Back in the ole TLX days they were rarely used on Opfor and nothing has changed since then. An official decision will come later today.

Are you fucking serious? Have you not been listening to what we have been saying, they are frequently used, only reason most other factions don’t use them is because they don’t know how to.

[Unknown 124]

3 minutes ago, Drew said:

Are you fucking serious? Have you not been listening to what we have been saying, they are frequently used, only reason most other factions don’t use them is because they don’t know how to.

Be respectful when replying.. I have read what everyone said, I STILL don't see how it would make ANY faction UNPLAYABLE. They have been over powered since day 1, we want it to be player on player and not AI vs Player. Back in the day we functioned PERFECTLY without it. If i recall honestly, the main person who used them was @Roque when he would drop them in rasman...lol

[Roque 63]

16 minutes ago, Unknown said:

Be respectful when replying.. I have read what everyone said, I STILL don't see how it would make ANY faction UNPLAYABLE. They have been over powered since day 1, we want it to be player on player and not AI vs Player. Back in the day we functioned PERFECTLY without it. If i recall honestly, the main person who used them was @Roque when he would drop them in rasman...lol

Yeah, I think I was one of the first to actually use them. Never actually really used them for gunning for me though because of the problems they caused so +1 to removal or limitation.

[Fakie 40]

Remove AI, it will make war's more interesting in the fact that you have to communicate with your gunner, in my opinion that seems a lot more fun than pressing a few buttons.

[Drew 27]

44 minutes ago, Unknown said:

Be respectful when replying.. I have read what everyone said, I STILL don't see how it would make ANY faction UNPLAYABLE. They have been over powered since day 1, we want it to be player on player and not AI vs Player. Back in the day we functioned PERFECTLY without it. If i recall honestly, the main person who used them was @Roque when he would drop them in rasman...lol

I will give you a reason. Whoever the developer of this current file we are using is/was crap, it interferes with some of the Arma 2 Systems. Makes it impossible to use direct lock on via manual fire, half of the time it doesn’t work (manual fire) Opfor need them to man their tanks, jets, aa, arty ect for war, indies need them for their tanks and vehicles as well, not to mention their igla pods and other AA defences, they can’t use them effectively plus you only have 7/8 indie slots, one of them is an experimental slot for admins only, if they are removed, we might as well remove war and turn it to border skirmishes, because their is never enough player slots for large scale battles which can be declared as a “war”. So unless you manage to clean this broken ass file up a bit and not be so damn buggy, they should stay. IMO Unknow, you need to be on more often, I have hardly seen you on within the 3/4 months I have been here, I think you need to use them and get some first hand experience on how critical they are to some of the factions. Ie indie and Opfor

[Giovanni 196]

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

I'm sorry but the server is to broken to function without ai gunners... i have tried plenty of times to use a attack helicopter without a ai gunner. it doesn't work.

That's what a human gunner is for. As I've stated multiple times already, AI provide an advantage in that they can instantly spot, target, and kill enemies. Players vs players provides a more fair combat environment.

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

The player base on this server so to low at points to get a decent player gunner.

If there's not enough people on to get a gunner in your helicopter, then you don't need that helicopter and you'd be better off on the ground.

It's ridiculous when the entirety of OPFOR takes out helicopters with AI to go hunt down terrorists while having no boots on the ground to patrol territory or man border checkpoints.

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

The thing with ai gunners is that opfor needs them during a war due to our only good jet requiring a ai gunner. (Su 27/34)

It requires a gunner, not specifically an AI gunner. A human gunner would do fine.

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

Every fighting faction can buy ai so they are not just overpowerd to one faction.

The suggestion is also to remove AI from every faction, not from one faction specifically. If you really believe that AI don't provide any advantages over others, then you would be fine with them being removed.

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

I have had a indie buy a igla pod and put a ai gunner in it to shoot me down. Do you hear me bitching about it? NO!

That's another reason why we shouldn't have AI available, regardless of whether you "bitch about it" or not.

9 hours ago, Wolfslayer said:

Can people just spend about 10 to 15 minutes in the arma 2 singleplayer boot camp

Completely irrelevant, this has nothing to do with AI providing significant advantages over other human players.

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Are you fucking serious? Have you not been listening to what we have been saying, they are frequently used, only reason most other factions don’t use them is because they don’t know how to.

Maybe you haven't noticed that there is also a group of people that disagree with you?

4 minutes ago, Drew said:

IMO Unknow, you need to be on more often, I have hardly seen you on within the 3/4 months I have been here, I think you need to use them and get some first hand experience on how critical they are to some of the factions. Ie indie and Opfor

Unknown has been playing on the server since 2014/2015. I think he has a lot of first hand experience.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Giovanni

[Smidge Griffkin 154]

I smell change in the air. RIP AI

 

[Unknown 124]

13 minutes ago, Drew said:

I will give you a reason. Whoever the developer of this current file we are using is/was crap, it interferes with some of the Arma 2 Systems. Makes it impossible to use direct lock on via manual fire, half of the time it doesn’t work (manual fire) Opfor need them to man their tanks, jets, aa, arty ect for war, indies need them for their tanks and vehicles as well, not to mention their igla pods and other AA defences, they can’t use them effectively plus you only have 7/8 indie slots, one of them is an experimental slot for admins only, if they are removed, we might as well remove war and turn it to border skirmishes, because their is never enough player slots for large scale battles which can be declared as a “war”. So unless you manage to clean this broken ass file up a bit and not be so damn buggy, they should stay. IMO Unknow, you need to be on more often, I have hardly seen you on within the 3/4 months I have been here, I think you need to use them and get some first hand experience on how critical they are to some of the factions. Ie indie and Opfor

Do you realize I use to own this server? I know exactly how it is and use to use it. Never liked it.

[Drew 27]

1 minute ago, Giovanni said:

That's what a human gunner is for. As I've stated multiple times already, AI provide an advantage in that they can instantly spot, target, and kill enemies. Players vs players provides a more fair combat environment.

If there's not enough people on to get a gunner in your helicopter, then you don't need that helicopter and you'd be better off on the ground.

It's ridiculous when the entirety of OPFOR takes out helicopters with AI to go hunt down terrorists while having no boots on the ground to patrol territory or man border checkpoints.

It requires a gunner, not specifically an AI gunner. A human gunner would do fine.

The suggestion is also to remove AI from every faction, not from one faction specifically. If you really believe that AI don't provide any advantages over others, then you would be fine with them being removed.

That's another reason why we shouldn't have AI available, regardless of whether you "bitch about it" or not.

Completely irrelevant, this has nothing to do with AI providing significant advantages over other human players.

Maybe you haven't noticed that there is also a group of people that disagree with you?

#1 no gio it doesn’t provide a “fair combat environment” each persons experience is different in regards of spec of pc ect, that type of thing makes are breaks, if you run this game on a crap PC. You cannot do shit.

#2 arm troops better then, because a RPG-7 with VR is a challenge to take out a tusk with a thermal gunner.

#3 we usually have boots on the ground, problem is, they get snipped at CP with not know where the hostile is. We use heli’s to scan and flush  them out.

#4 sure but people are idiots, most of the players on here I bet have jumped straight into multiplayer, not know how to do sweet fuck all, ai are more capable than a fresh player who has just downloaded the game.

#5 Ai do provide an advantage, only over human payers though, people are sometimes clueless when it comes to threats or lack the ability to deal with them, but ai can detect enemies a good km away, and provide decent return fire on hostile player.

#6 your response ist even valid for that gio, you have no clue what you are on about, most of the people bitching are the ones who don’t know how to use them.

#7 completely relevant, most of the players jump straight into multiplayer, not know wtf they are doing, being completely useless from the word go, they need to do the Arma tutorial before they log in honestly.

#8 because they are the ones who don’t know how and won’t use them, they are the useless players who jumped straight into multiplayer and didn’t even bother to learn the basics.

 

[Drew 27]

5 minutes ago, Unknown said:

Do you realize I use to own this server? I know exactly how it is and use to use it. Never liked it.

I don’t care if you owned the server, seems like your clueless as the rest of the player who don’t know how to play.

[Unknown 124]

13 minutes ago, Drew said:

I don’t care if you owned the server, seems like your clueless as the rest of the player who don’t know how to play.

I’m clueless? Roque, a veteran player even said himself it should be removed. Just because we don’t agree with your opinion does not mean we are clueless. Topic locked to prevent further arguing.